Beowolff---off his medication. again.

[Beowolff]

details, here:

http://www.msnusers.com/BeowolffsRoninL ... ssage=4092" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Beowolff

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Note to Self: Beowolff doesn't get to fly MY fully-restored Mustang.

Seriously, though, I hear you mate.

While folks vary in degree of knowledge, the IL-2 community seems to seldom discuss the gaming/entertainment aspect of this flight simulator. Maybe that's why we must settle for patches on FM and not enhancements on the gaming elements.

For example, how hard would it be to allow external views when not active in a COOP mission? These sorts of things interest me more than changing the FM of plane X for the 100th time to try and satisfy a vocal minority.

TactS!

[:FI:Falcon]

I have over 12,000 hours in aircraft ranging from Piper Tomahawks to Boeing 727's. I've flown into, out of, around the hairiest airports and the most ineptly handled controlled airspace in the country. I've been stuck in blizzards, sandstorms, cat. ten thunderstorms, microbursts and 60kt gusting x-winds. I've navigated around tornados, under bridges, through blind caverns, over pitch-black deserts and beside wide-eyed cows. I've landed in parking lots, cow pastures, corn fields and back yards. I've hauled everything from asswipe businessmen in cheap suits to live snakes in cheaper crates. I've gotten the best of what a woman can offer on the back deck of a Navajo with only a 30 year-old Collins 2-axis auto pilot up front doing the work at 20,000'. I've BS'd more FAA, chief pilots, FBO owners, nervous passengers and company flight schedulers on more occasions than I've had gas from "Poncho's". I've been out of fuel, over gross, under paid, in the weeds, out of balance, past TBO, behind the eight ball and number 32 for the ILS approach in solid IFR into Atlanta on a regular basis.

But when it comes to IL2 ...

I'm ... scared


Fal "still tryin" con

[:FI:TacticalS!]

And yes I'm reporting YOU to the authorities sir!

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Does your wife know all this Falcon ?

Your right Tactical I think flight models are important but they are not the only thing. But everything else seems to take a distant second. Plus, like you said a lot of enhancements that would make the game much more fun would probably require a lot less effort.

s!
Snoop

[Beowolff]

exactly, snoop and tact.... sure, flight models are important...but getting it close enough is good enough, and there ARE tons more important things to make this a great sim... and THAT'S what everyone keeps forgetting.

its a sim. a game. nothing more nothing less. we do this for entertainment... so what if the flight model is off a bit, eh? who really knows anyhow...or should even care? what about FUN!

if Oleg didn't have to worry about flight model experts so much, we might actually could have a game that feels more alive...instead of the near lifeless, steril IL2 world that we have to fly in now. the AI might be smarter, both enemy AND friendly. we might have landing strips with re-arm, re-gas, re-fit centers...so we could gas and arm up and fly BACK into the fray if we were lucky enough to sit down in one piece.

coops might be joinable at ANY time.... instead of locking us down at game start. wouldn't that be nice, to be able to join coops IN PROGRESS and get in on the action?

cities and villages might light up automatically at night...until black out from the air raid sirens. mountains might be higher...like REAL mountains and valleys deeper, like REAL valleys... instead of the mole hills and gulleys they are now.

weather might even be more advanced. we might have more planes, more ground vehicles, bigger maps...maybe true WORLD maps where we could fly all over. IF---we didn't have to worry about the EXACT rudder deflection and air molecule displacement of a Bf-109E, all the time.

what foolishness we dream up under the deluded impression that we or anyone could ever get the flight models---JUST RIGHT anyway.

Beowolff

[MikeVictor]

Hey Falc,

If yur ever in the Wash DC area, let me know, we'll take a hop in a 2 place glider at my club.

Monyana,

MicVic

[:FI:Falcon]

you bet MV!

...

this glider

...

it has an engine,

right?

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Now that's what I'm talking about . (Great ideas btw) I'll take that before adjusting the top level speed of my mustang by +/- 10kph any time!

s!
Snoop

[:FI:McBiggles]

I couldn't agree more Boewolf. If realism is what we are all after, we are not going to get it, and this is is only my extremely humble opinion, looking into a monitor. I've been flying these things for a long time and have yet to feel any waves of sheer terror and panic at not being able to shake this guy loose.
I have, (in that that other sim, sshhhh) tried to sit in my '51 for hours escorting Forts to the Big City. For me it was only what it may have felt like. not only how it looked. It is after all a simulation. How the thing looks is nice, but I'd be willing to trade some of this "realism" for some feeling of bigness, for want of a better word.
Things have come along to enhance the sence of being there, TIR, TS,etc...but are we going not enjoy it because we don't think it's real enough? My life is plenty real. I want to PLAY this game. I don't really feel terribly qualified to discuss advanced areodynamics. I know 190's have a nice roll rate, Spit's are beautifull, that stuff. I wouldn't know the right fm for any af these planes. It could be modeled on a trowelfull of mortar for all I know.
I want to do this, with you guys, to put a human element in it. To me, having time for play is becoming more important. Aren't things serious enough? Anyway, my two cents.

McB

[MikeVictor]

Engine?!. I don't got no stinkin engine.

The plane would be a Grob 103 Twin Astir,

There are pic's of it on our web site: http://www.m-asa.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Off we go into the wild blue yonder....

MicVic

[Skipper]

I totally agree with you Beo. I'm sick of having to download patches that are in excess of 100MB just so I can edge an inch closer to so called "realism". I really don't know what these uber-pilots expect on the realsim front as , at the end of the day , you are sat looking at a monitor which is not realistic at all! I'm sick of the constant talk on the Ubi forums of how the planes don't handle properly so we need yet another patch. he thing that mkes me madder is that Oleg listens and redesigns what was , a perfectly acceptable flight model yet ignores the fact that the best addition to the game would be better and more maps and new planes. I would far rather be able to fly the mossie across the channel from good old England to bomb targets in say Paris than be sat constantly trying to prevent my plane from stalling from the ridiculous torque!
Furthermore (Sorry to rant ) , I would like some good AI as this seems to have declined over the patches. Perhaps this is because I have become a better pilot(unlikely ) but I certainly never recall planes just flying straight into the ground for no reason.

Ok I'm going to go take some medication and try to relax!

RANT OVER

Skipper

[:FI:Falcon]

No matter how accurate or bad or lousy or great or whatever the game is,

it has always been close enough for me to enjoy.

Knowing what I know about real stuff

it is still easy for me to slip on the fluffy slippers of emersion

and be a WWII pilot with IL2.

The folks at 1c seem to be happy slowly improving it.

They seem to be learning from it all

and they're doing a consistently fair job with a fundamentally excellent game.

BoB probably will be all the better from all the effort.

Up the programers!


Fal "there must be a horse in here somewhere" con

[Beowolff]

oh, i agree with you, Falcon, the programmers are doing a good job. of course, 98.999 percent of it is always FLIGHT MODEL. and there in lies they rub. flight models alone do NOT carry a game completely. as important as they are, they are not EVERYTHING to any game. and this is a game.

and they (programmers or rather Oleg) listen TOO much to the LORD KEEPERS OF THE SACRED FLIGHT MODELS... where as most of those are geeko's with screws loose or 13 year old wanna be geeko's also with screws loose. as noted above by others, no matter how perfect seemingly the flight models are, at the end of the flight in IL2, you're STILL sitting in front of a computer screen.

it ain't real, no matter what.

and as noted, sure, the flight models need to be somewhere generally within normally understood/known models... but do they need to be SPOT on to have fun? nope. for if they were, 90 percent of us would NOT be able to leap into a cockpit and even get airborne... let alone dogfight with enemy aces. and THAT wouldn't do much for game sales.

also, even with our present level of technology, i don't think we're anywhere NEAR capable of building softward PERFECTLY able to emulate a REAL WW2 (or any other) fighter plane or bomber. just too many damned variables to take into consideration. and if we 'could' we'd need super Cray computers the size of a house to run them.

so, if those "the flight models HAVE to be PERFECT' guys REALLY want to be spot on and truely 100% authentic, then since it quite obviously can't be... the game is ruined from the get go. and we can carry that line of thought right on down the line. since we don't REALLY have authentic, perfectly modeled physical cockpits for us to sit in while we play, with authentic gauges/dials, levers, switches, seat cushions, headrests, etc, etc... how then can this game be authentic and why didn't Oleg include all of that with the game in the first place. course the game box would have had to be REALLY big...but hey. yeah, silly sounding to expect such, but then so are the "FM HAS TO BE EXACTLY RIGHT" thoughts.

the real truth of the whole FM thing is that everybody with a mouth wants THEIR fave mount to fly like THEY think it should... whether it really did or not. they even go so far as to put down REAL WW2 pilots that flew those planes...if favor of their own thoughts/ideas/wants/demands.... and they just won't shut up about it.

course those same guys (many of them the same people) are also the ones that continually pop off about how we need ANOTHER version of the bf-109 cause THAT one was sooo important to the war (when usually the one their talking about is a one-off or a paper design that never even saw flight, let alone combat.) completely ignoring dozens of other 'different' important aircraft that did see everyday service and made great contributions to the war effort of its respective side.

sheesh!

don't get me wrong, IL2 and all its versions are great games... great efforts by Oleg and crew to get us a good, workable WW2 game to play. in fact, there's little doubt that as it stands now, IL2 is the best there is. but it could and perhaps should have been better ---at least when it concerns pure gaming enjoyment. and perhaps it would have been... if the quest for the PERFECT flight model wasn't continually screamed for by all of the know it all loonies, most of them that wouldn't know "authentic" if it reared up and bit them on their collective ignorant arses.

Beowolff

[:FI:TacticalS!]

To sum up then - IL-2 great game / IL-2 gamers really suck.

Hey my first real short post!