Fighting Irish Forums

Hi All,
I found this today
Well, war is war...
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crap

get a bunch of 18 year-old boys together, give them guns and tell them it's okay to kill people

and tragic things start happening

regardless of what kind of rules you try to use



thanks ... I guess,


S

Some Rules...

That video was disturbing, at best.

Hmm... please don't think that I full excuse that pilot BUT
Terrible sorry but this is one of typical situation on the war I remember my best friend who was KIA in Chechen war (awarded after KIA) told me "one of gold rules on the war for civilians - don't run - you will be kill, don't look around/angled viewing like military - you will be kill, max avoid hot zones because there you will be watch through sight etc etc". During I was trained in millitary medicine, our lecturer (Colonel) told us some stories from hot spots... a bit of one "...our column has been walked somewhere in Afghan, suddenly our patrolman shouted - running man detected! Then we looked toward that place through binocular and really - there was a rifleman or sniper with long rifle (not remember famous English old rifle), our commander gave order to our sniper - destroy target! But when we have arrived to the place we found that we killed old farmer and he held a hoe!" May be you know that recently Russian forces killed some civilians in Chechen when these civilians were found in the forest. Russians soldiers were sure that this is terrorists walked ... but this was a group of civilians who picked wild leek.
I don't understand US commanders in Irak who hidden this fact but I do not full understand others either who try compare these pilots with coldblooded murderers... I have some medical and life experience - there is no guarantee that these pilots will not suffer (psychology) later (see this topic) even without public investigation
Conclusion? My conclusions: 1. War is bad. 2. Reporter, especially on the war is extremely danger profession.

Some time ago armed police in London shot dead an innocent man carrying a table leg.That and the shooting by police of Jean Charles de Menezes shows how any force acting under orders is hyped up for the task given.
Most civilians don't have the benefit (?) of military training, so don't know the rules. I would have thought use of a loud hailer on the chopper, or hi vis jackets for press could have avoided the situation.

It still sucks.

I´ve seen just half of the video and to be honest it made me sick. Now I can imagine why the Penatgon and other ministeries of defence try to "embed" journalists into the troop instead of leaving them to do their work uncovered by any military "information" officers.

War sucks! Any time and anywhere! I do need understand the necessity to defend yourself and your comrades ... but this looked/sounded to me like some GIs of the chopper crew were searching trouble.

I´ve seen several other videos like this one and they all made me sick. Killing is part of every war ... but is it really necessary to ridicule his victims (insurgents/civilian/whatever): "Good shooting! Nice!"? Is there no code of honour?

A sick former member of the civilian service

I am not necessarily defending these men or giving excuses, but for the sake of context, this had been a very busy day in a busy week of house-to-house fighting in the city. Combatants were dieing along side civilians.


S

I more or less agree with most options here ,Soldiers cannot be expected to endure combat for long in civilian environment without this kind of thing happening,We do not know what other circumstances were present that day,were there US troops involved in heavy fighting close at hand,etc , Why weren't the reporters clothed for same,there is a SOP for reporters in the field, most army's have integrated GPS transmitters in the clothing of there troops,sure accredited reporters could have access to this, which would transmit them as Reuters staff, also most of these engagements are done "real time" they asked and received confirmation to engage as tragic as it was.On the other hand this video and others like it should be required viewing for all combat troops ,ground ,air whatever ,to show how stress related/incompetent command/tired troops/or just lazy observation,can lead to tragedy ,It will happen again i am sure ,its real tragedy is that as a lesson it will probably not be learnt.

All good points.

Kids with major weapons
+Hyped up orders
+Civilians unaware of RoE
+Mistaken identities
+Dog knows what else
----------------------------------------
= Tragedy.

Sad fact, but the numbers don't lie.

Even sadder is the refusal of those in Command to admit to the errors.

It was indeed a sad mistake. Mistakes like this have happened many times before in every war that has been fought since the advent of gunpowder and incidents like this will continue to happen.

We had the same problem in "Nam. When you are fighting an army "of the people" then the people are also going to be killed. The people fighting in civilian clothes make every civilian a target. Carry that thought a bit further and the friends and relatives of the innocent dead will be upset with those that killed them and the terrorist/freedom fighter has more recruits for their cause, even though it was their actions that got the innocents killed. It's a dirty business at best.

What Alex said about running and looking is true. The guys with the big guns are looking for something different. Something different looking or acting gets the attention. The attention of eager young men with big guns is not something that you want.

:FI:Heloego wrote:All good points.
...
Even sadder is the refusal of those in Command to admit to the errors.

That's the point.

Those mistakes happen in every conflict with every army of every nationality.
It's sad but almost not to avoid.
In this case not only the soldiers were to blame, but the press guys also.
Independent coverage is important, but to risk your life only for "the best picture" ?

Sad story but good that it was uncovered.
The command has to investigate and admit the errors and prevent event like that in future operations.
More clear directives should be given to the executive soldiers in the front lines.

When daddy's coming home (from Iraq):

http://bit.ly/boFdmy

Watch it !

Isn't it moving?

Sorry, but this can't be called a sad mistake.

how could it happen that pre-adults may make such decisions. the reason they shot the first time was because she thought it was RPG. it was a telephoto lens, that any moron can see. then there is no good reason, a bus riddled with bullets show later that there were children on that bus. with what reason did they engage fire...NO reason at all. there was only thought they had weapons with them. I have not seen one

I think they had the idea that they were playing BF2.
This is good example of how US Army working methods are when they are abroad.

unbelievable that this can happen.

I hope that they will rot in jail, bastards [-o<

:FI:Falcon wrote:... for the sake of context, this had been a very busy day in a busy week of house-to-house fighting in the city. Combatants were dieing along side civilians.


S

Okay, the most recent news I have received is that there was NOT a lot of activity around the city that day. In that area only one other notable incident near by occurred.

Just sayin'.


S