Historic Encounters - Externals or No Externals

:FI:TacticalS! · Post by **:FI:TacticalS!** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:24 pm

Is it time to shed our External Views in Historic Encounters? Got your TrackIR/hatswitch working mate? This would really force us to work on our situation awareness, and eliminate any "cheating" during dogfights. Man my stats will suffer.

Of course the downside is folks KIA will have to watch tv or take a break until the next mission. No more watching SnoopBaron getting shot down by easy AI.

What say the gang?

Nightcat · Post by **Nightcat** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:20 pm

I say external views rule, its where all the cool screenies come from and its always great to watch bombs hitting the target area and impressive formations.

From a bomber pilot perspective its actually pretty good to use it as an advantage to dodge incoming attacks - to me, the gunners would be shouting "Incoming!!! Bank right! bank right!" etc etc rather then nothing - like the gunner would not be communicating anything - though I think it works the same with no external views but not locking view to cockpit.

NC

MikeVictor · Post by **MikeVictor** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:37 pm

Hmm, externals are cool to watch and they help find the D! runway sometimes and to stay on it while taking off or finding it and landing or crashing on it.

However, a lot of sessions on HL only have internals.

I suppose having externals makes spotting bad guys easier and perhaps manuvering to avoid/attack them. Not sure I really want to do that as it takes away from the realism, but it does add to the entertainment factor.

It might be neat if we could select having externals only when bad guys are a certain range from us....so we could see the nice scenery, but not use externals during close combat..as we please...

Perhaps we could have a mix of both, that way Snoop and I can have some privacy now and then as we smoke into firma terra.

Would it be possible to have externals only when landing, taking off and watching snoop spiral into the dirt?

I have externals all the time anyway, that's what you get when you're under a parachute....

MicVic

MicVic

:FI:TacticalS! · Post by **:FI:TacticalS!** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:39 pm

Oh look at Mike showing his sorry face (not the body part I was thinking of) around Historic Encounters again!

So are we to forget the fact that you have been missed for many, many weeks mate? I trust this is a sign of your interest to join us again. [-o<

To answer your question - no.

Sadly, it's either on or off. Russian developers suck!

I suppose for any folks who might be coming from an open cockpit/fly external background having externals is real nice. As the :FI: have pretty much switched from this type of flying for closed cockpit/no externals in our DF servers and what not, it is only in COOPS we (and everyone else in the IL-2 community) struggle with this dilemma.

Personally, the only real reason for externals even in Historic Encounters should be for KIA pilots to past their time before the next mission. At last I think we ALL are guilty of using externals more than we should. I think there is only one solution, at least at the moment, but I'll let the group decide whether now is the appropriate time for the change. At least with TeamSpeak the KIA pilots can enjoy a friendly chit-chat while they wait.

Regards,
TS!

:FI:IceFrog · Post by **:FI:IceFrog** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:48 pm

:FI:TacticalS! wrote:no. Sadly, it's either on or off. Russian developers suck! TS!

if that is the case, then i will vote for the "OFF" and will miss half the fun watching you guys fight for your lives after Iââ‚¬â„¢m knocked down

since we start on the airfield in line, trying to find it without externals will not be a problem

:FI:Noter · Post by **:FI:Noter** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:41 am

To be honest, I've only used them on takeoff's and after shot down, so I don't think I'd miss them too much. I would miss watching everyone after being killed, it's a nice learning tool, seeing how others fight.

Noter

:FI:Heloego · Post by **:FI:Heloego** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:14 am

...

To be honest, I've only used them on takeoff's and after shot down, so I don't think I'd miss them too much. I would miss watching everyone after being killed, it's a nice learning tool, seeing how others fight.

Hear! Hear!

And as Tact said...

Personally, the only real reason for externals even in Historic Encounters should be for KIA pilots to past their time before the next mission. At last I think we ALL are guilty of using externals more than we should. I think there is only one solution, at least at the moment, but I'll let the group decide whether now is the appropriate time for the change. At least with TeamSpeak the KIA pilots can enjoy a friendly chit-chat while they wait.

There! There!

I'm OK without them.

I've learned to apply brakes and rudder, and increase throttle until I have a view of the ship forward of me on the runway.
It only takes a few seconds, can be done while those ahead of you are waiting to make their roll, and once you see them in your left or right quarter-pane you just back off the throttle and wait.

:FI:McBiggles · Post by **:FI:McBiggles** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:31 pm

I don't like the idea of externals being used as a cheap kind of radar thingy. If you can't keep the Mk-1 Eyeball on your prey/foe, you're cold meat, and you should be. I agree with Helo about takeoffs. Swing the end to see who's in front of you. Chances are, if there is no one in front of you, and I have noticed this almost instinctivly, YOU are the leader. Where was I? Right, anyway, the chaps who get killed could congregate on another channel to discusss the demise of themselves. Personally, I can see that being of some use, we all fowl up, dog knows who you'll end up talking to. Maybe Flight or someone could pop in from time to time and inform these dead types when those who didn't spread themselves all over the station on takeoff, or die in actual combat, are landing, and to get ready, meaning , finish drinks, or get one, put that out, or light that up, go for a slash, that kind of thing. Let's face it, you're not going to be sitting around too long on your own, not with this crowd. Thing is, I say leave it on for now. Chaps who use it to unfair advantage know what they're doing, you can only con yourself into thinking it's helping for a while, and then there is a moment when you just want to try it, and see. You know without it, adds a whole new, I don't know, tension, might be a good word, what. It forces one to concentrate on what one is doing without the aid of seeing how lost one actually is, or you know, where the end of the runway is. I know in my case it explains my just seeming to wander off, for miles and miles. By the by, when that happens, it is just me fiercely concentrating on not wanderiing off for miles, someone could say somthing you know, 'Where are you goin?' That kind of thing, wouldn't kill you. So, there. Ah, coffee's ready. Toodles.

McBiggles

:FI:Falcon · Post by **:FI:Falcon** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:31 pm

No externals,

...

and no internals either!!

What are we,

men or sheep!?

Fal "die FedEx" con

MikeVictor · Post by **MikeVictor** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:02 am

We could have an agreement in FI engagements that we would only use it on take off, landing, and when shot down.

We can trust each other can't we.............. .. . .....

If not, can we have a cheat detection thinkgy in place that would ID non trustworthy FI members who would then be at the mercy of an FI court martial...

externals are cool if they can be used only for entertainment and not for tactical advantage.

MicVic

:FI:Noter · Post by **:FI:Noter** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:34 am

I'd be willing to have a go and see how things work out with externals off. Like I said it wouldn't change the way I fly anyway.

With reguards to takeoff, hell, we are usually in sequence during setup, no ai in between us, so we shouldn't even have to nudge to the side to see, just remember who your behind, each man announces his takeoff...wait a couple seconds and start your roll (easy..peasy).

If we all get bored while TactS or Snoop is still duking it out we can see about turning the externals back on for later missions.

I like the added realism, but will honestly miss the value of learning while watching the others fight (gee think I get shot down before most everyone else...hmmm). I'll just go watch that cool aerobatic video with the that hot chick behind the controls while I wait for the next session.

Noter

Nightcat · Post by **Nightcat** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:27 am

If in doubt, ask the tower for clearance for takeoff... that might be the clebberist thing I've said today

NC

:FI:Heloego · Post by **:FI:Heloego** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:56 pm

"clebberist" has only one "b"!

Got that?

:FI:Snoop Baron · Post by **:FI:Snoop Baron** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:31 pm

I got shot down one time Wednesday and as I recall I was in a 1941 plane down low with four of you in your 1943 planes above me. But I vote for externals off it'll make it that much easier to shoot Tactical down over and over again

If we go with externals off the only thing I recommend is that we let people know over teamspeak once the mission is over so that if they choose they can disconnect after dieing and then rejoin through the back door when the next flight is ready.

s!
Snoop

:FI:TacticalS! · Post by **:FI:TacticalS!** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:27 pm

Thanks for the responses so far guys! Like I said these sessions are for the group, and I don't want to make changes unless the group wants them.

Not sure what comment is more alarming, Snoop's one about shooting me down or Mike's statement about trusting the Fightin' Irish (did you hear that Falcon, trust the :FI:

; funny guy that Mikey is eh?

).

Btw I liked Falcon's suggestion about not using any monitor. You know in RL they didn't have computer monitors. Enuff said I guess.

Well, so far the "No Externals" crowd is in the lead. Beat you wish you could vote twice now, eh?

-----

Personally I would prefer No Externals. It will make us work much harder at SA, and I agree takeoffs won't be much of a problem (especially since I don't use Externals generally on takeoffs).

I have used Externals after the main DF has occured when I'm looking to see if there are any more enemies out there for the group. Without Externals the missions will get a bit more exciting in us not knowing so much about the enemy.

In the end, given the missions usually don't last too long (i.e., short flight distances), and one can chit-chat on comms, besides taking a break or jumping into a quick Dogfight offline mission for practice, I think this can work fine.

As for learning folks can always record a video of the mission, which will keep going as long as they have the game on. Until the game allows for Externals only when KIA/landed, I say let's try playing without Externals, at least for one session, and go from there.

Cya this Wednesday mates!

TS!

Historic Encounters - Externals or No Externals

To External or Not, that is the New Question

Historic Encounters - Externals or No Externals

Internal or External, that is the question

Noter opined...

Externals..sometimes

HEY!!!!