Cockpit Instrumentation

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Are we ready for another challenge in Historic Encounters folks? Now that navigation (with radio assistance) has become commonplace, is it time to move onto a reduced Speedbar only showing bearing and not speed/altitude? Too much too soon?

Let's vote!

[:FI:Moe]

I'll give it a go. I think we can expect a few calls of, "Where's the freakin' compass/altimeter in this bucket?!?"

M "Getting familiar with his instrument" oe

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Just for clarification, and to align ourselves with many online wars, I propose we start with a Speedbar having bearing (i.e., compass). Later we could go without any help. I realize compass information should be decent in most of our rides, but problematic in some (especially Russian rigs).

TS!

[:FI:IceFrog]

if we voted i would vote to stay with what we have, i've tried it and didn't like it, (maybe if we stayed in the same plane, all the time)
but again guys i'll fly with you no matter what, (do we have an option to drive a tank?)

[:FI:TacticalS!]

if we voted i would vote to stay with what we have, i've tried it and didn't like it, (maybe if we stayed in the same plane, all the time)
but again guys i'll fly with you no matter what, (do we have an option to drive a tank?)

No peer pressure (just beer pressure I suppose - but I'm not a drinker in any event ). You should vote for the latter choice Les without any overwhelming feelings of guilt or regret I suppose.

If there wasn't the interest yet, it is something we can come back to at a later date. As host I'm happy with our present settings, but for the sake of the entire group I want to make sure people are being challenged with Historic Encounters.

And boy some of you guys are sure challenged. TacticalS! runs and hides under a rock, only to find SnoopBaron there hiding from Amanda!

TS!

[:FI:Sneaky_Russian]

Digutal v analogue instruments

possibly the reverse is true in the virtual world as some of the figures can be difficult to read off the dials in some cockpits

[:FI:Noter]

I'd like to get a session or two under our belts with the new plane sets in our Grand Campaign, get familiar with the aircraft and instrumentation, then the following sessions give it a go without the airspeed and altitude bars. I think we can pull it off (never having done it before).

Noter

[:FI:TacticalS!]

I'd like to get a session or two under our belts with the new plane sets in our Grand Campaign, get familiar with the aircraft and instrumentation, then the following sessions give it a go without the airspeed and altitude bars. I think we can pull it off (never having done it before).

Noter

Should the vote be in favour of reduced speedbar, this is a great suggestion Noter!

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

I think noter's suggestion is good one. I worry that those without track IR or small displays will have a hard time checking their instruments. For example, MadCat using a mouse and a low resolution laptop display, on a lot of airplanes it would be very difficult for him to keep a good eye on his speed which is very important for E management. While in my case I have a nice 20" flat screen Dell monitor and TrackIR 3 Pro with vector expansion, the dials are much easier for me to keep an eye on. The guy with the better equipment always has an advantage but this will increase that divide.

It's much harder to glance at your instruments in the game than it ever was in the real deal. I think it could add some immersion to have to use those two dials but the added realism I think is questionable given the technology constraints. I'm willing to give it a try though.

s!
Snoop

[:FI:IceFrog]

The guy with the better equipment always has an advantage but this will increase that divide.

just like in the real war

I think it could add some immersion to have to use those two dials but the added realism

OK then I guess we should turn off navigation lights too

[:FI:Noter]

OK then I guess we should turn off navigation lights too

No nav lights...now that's just crazy talk...

Noter

[:FI:TacticalS!]

“The beatings will stop when morale improves.”

- Navigation Lights -

For what it is worth, our use of navigation lights is cheesy for sure guys. Heck most of the planes in this game didn't even have them. Let’s be honest we use them because we’re too lazy to be flying tighter with our wingman and closer to the flight leader (i.e., within Friendly Name Distance – 1 kilometer). Heck the Icons are cheesy for that matter.

Though I realize IceFrog was just making a comparison, out of anger I might add , but for future sessions I would encourage the following:

- Though still cheesy, only the Flight Leader have his navigation lights on. If he is no longer active in the mission, the new Flight Leader would put his lights on. Obviously the use of the lights is meant to facilitate better formation flying and re-grouping during a mission.

- If absolutely necessary, and because we’re not prunes, a quick flick of the lights between folks (preferably lead and wingman) will be allowed.


- Cockpit Instrumentation –

Getting back to IceFrog’s comments, as we know the intention of Historic Encounters is to seek immersive game play that approximates WW2 flight combat as best as we can. As mentioned over at the website, as well as thoroughly discussed in the Historic Encounters thread, I believe this immersion is primarily found in the manner we approach the missions and how we fly together in them. Game settings for the most part play an important secondary role.

Having said that I will from time to time ask the group what changes, if any, do we want to try with regards to game settings. This is one of those times. For me I have the benefit of TIR, but would struggle with the Imperial system as I am more accustomed to the Metric system. So a handy conversion table would be a must, adding to my workload of navigation. Gee how did pilots find the time to actually dogfight/bomb. Seems rather inconvenient, what?

At the end of the day I don’t want folks discouraged with these sessions, or the game settings diminishing the level of team play that we are capable of achieving. Like Mel Gibson’s character said in We Were Soldiers, “No man will be left behind, except McBiggles maybe” (or words to that effect).

Tact – “I’m not a purist I just play one on TV” – S!

[:FI:IceFrog]

Geee.. the only reason I don’t like the navigation lights is because it mess’ up the screenshots.

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Well in real life a pilot wouldn't be switching between, metric, imperial, and nautical systems like we do (not to mention Russian, German, and Japanese). So you can bet they wouldn't need a table to do conversions.

I agree, I think the nav lights are good mainly as training wheels for our team flying and tactics. I think we have progressed enough were we don't need every plane with their nav lights on all the time. The flight leader can use them to help group up and signal the flight, and can turn them off at their discretion.

I think the icons are fine (especially enemy icons which are quite limited and help compensate for the poor visibility we have in the sim). The friendly icon pilot names are better than we would probably fare in the real world (I don't know at what distance you could realistically read a planes ID). But they are another set of training wheels and it's nice to know which friendly you are flying with

I already gave my feedback on the gages so I won't repeat myself

I think what is most important is for us to improve two aspects of our flying.

1) Our team flying: formation flying and battle tactics (that includes flight tactics (8 planes), division tactics (4 planes), and section tactics (2 planes))
2) Our individual energy fighting, our team tactics will not work well if individual elements are not practicing proper energy management.

If we improve those two then we can progressively get rid of some of the training wheels we have in place. But the training wheels are useful while training, for example the icon distance reading for formation flying is a great aid (plus it is harder to judge closure in pseudo 3d).

s!
Snoop

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Good thoughts mate. I almost thought YOU was going to push for no Icons. Silly me!

What I would love to see is folks becoming more effective in hunting in pairs. There has been some decent examples of this here and there, but I feel we haven't really figured out effective strategies yet. In time I trust.

TS!