The ongoing JG42 war

Dates, News and Comments

Should we skip the Moscow and move over to the Bessarabia campaign as soon as possible?

Yeah, let's move immeadiately!
4
25%
Yeah, ... but give Moscow further two weeks before moving over!
1
6%
Naw, me loves Moscow! Let's fight there to the bitter end!
7
44%
Where da beer ... again?
4
25%
 
Total votes: 16
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Baby Boardie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Graf Zahl » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:15 am

1.JaVA_Jojo wrote:Nee klopt ..ik heb er op geschoten .........ik dacht dat het AI was en ik verveelde mij
Sorry ......
Reading this makes all possible anger dissolve into happiness...dutch is just such a great language...whatever you do, I just can't stay angry if you start talking dutch! :lol: ;)

While I thought my extravagant pilot skin would save myself from any mix-ups, I definitely think it's better to be confused with an soulless AI than being killed in my chute for who I am... :lol:
1.JaVA_Jojo wrote:I know where he lives. If it happens again I will shoot him myself.
Thank you very much, good sir. But I think wounding him and his offspring heavily should be enough to deliver the message. 8) ;)
:FI:Gadje wrote:When I get bored I shoot my teammates, they are so trusting. Nobody complains much...
I tried this with Nephris once...he still keeps an close eye on deploying me far away from himself... :|
Maybe he does not like the juice of hop & malt? :o

Good night!
GZ
Nephris
Professional Boardie
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Nephris » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Hi folks,
as I posted the past months everything that belongs to the campaign in 3 different forums, I decided to create one single plattform to post all relevant information just once. You will find the website under the adress
http://dcg.oldhelmetz.com
It is aswell linked it via my signature.


It should be a multilanguage website by browser _de & _en flag.
Pls tell me if that doesent work.
As english is not my mother language, pls tell me when certain parts need correction.
Image
User avatar
:FI:Armitage
Post Maniac 2nd Grade
Posts: 1240
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: Athenry, Galway, Ireland

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by :FI:Armitage » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:01 am

When I get bored I shoot my teammates, they are so trusting
At least you do a honest kill. Better than the other scots man on the team who chases other peoples kill to the ground in the hope of putting a few bullets in and claiming the kill for themselves (even when the wings are gone....)
User avatar
:FI:Gadje
The Unforseeable
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:44 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by :FI:Gadje » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:44 pm

:FI:Armitage wrote:
When I get bored I shoot my teammates, they are so trusting
At least you do a honest kill. Better than the other scots man on the team who chases other peoples kill to the ground in the hope of putting a few bullets in and claiming the kill for themselves (even when the wings are gone....)
=FI=Rambo tought Mikester everything he knows about killstealing. :^o
Nephris
Professional Boardie
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Nephris » Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:25 pm

Map, report etc up2date.
I will slowly update some basic information for DCG, so worth to check the site here and there.
Follow my Sig again.


Sorry Eamon the ram above Yukhnov wasnt intended, but 220km/h is just a bit too slow in a Bf109E7 for virtuosities and aerobatics I guess.
Image
User avatar
:FI:Blue2
Forum Junky
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:40 pm
Location: Texas

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by :FI:Blue2 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:38 am

Hmm... well, another nasty day of events for us, so I'll try to head off some angst by posting some more questions and comments from myself & others right now.

1) Do the Blue pilots ever encounter AAA guns that seem "unbreakable?" Today the JaVA boys had this experience with the 88mm gun in Naro-Fominsk - immune to bullets, shells, bombs, etc. Two Sundays ago we had the same experience with a little 20mm Flak30 at the east end of the K10 airfield. I experienced that one myself, making 3 or 4 firing passes against in my IL-2 without results. OK there's the chance my aim was just bad with guns. But then I unloaded a full load of AJ cassettes right on top of it. The gun kept firing after all this! We suspect this is a but that occasionally appears. Have you guys seen it...?

2) I want to learn more about front line movement and sector captures because of the following sequence of events (the latest example, but have been confused by several previous ones like this):
- 9/8/13, 2nd mission: all Blue tanks except 1 enroute to P7 transport point were killed (so just ONE should have arrived safely at L7)
- 9/15/13, 1st mission: P7 transport point is still Red @ misssion start (as expected); however there are FOUR Blue tanks at this point now, not just 1!? Anyway, all 4 were destroyed during the mission, and the N7 bridge was also destroyed (to block the additional tanks we saw arriving at the L7 point). At this point I felt certain that we had blunted the Blue assault on P7.
- 9/15/13, 2nd mission: P7 transport point is still Red @ mission start (good! as expected). 4 tanks remained at L7 point due to destroyed bridge (again good, just as expected). Yet somehow, P7 transport point changes to BLUE after this mission?!? HUH??? ](*,) Don't understand how. Sighted no columns enroute there from L7 on previous mission, and no tanks survived there for a whole mission. Really confusing.

3) At start of today's 2nd mission, we were no longer able to take off from both airfields at Medyn as well as the Q7 airfield, even though no new sectors had been captured in that area yet according to the map. :roll: We don't understand why this happened, and would like to learn more about it. I am guessing this may be somehow related to the "troop strength" measurement at nearby transport points. If so, can we view these troop strengths in the log file? I looked around on Lowengrin's site tonight but none of the documents there seem to discuss this topic, nor could I find anything in the forums going into any detail on it. Wondering also: is this part driven by DCG, or by MDS? Ugh!
Related to this, DCG also moved many of our squadrons at the start of the 2nd mission. A few stayed in their previous airfield, but several squadrons also "disappeared" completely, i.e. they were not available at any of the remaining airfields (some perhaps due to losses, such as P-39 and P-40). These changes included all squadrons disappearing from the Q11 airfield. All of this severely limited what we could do in that 2nd mission!

4) Blue forces control the I3 transport point, but not the one in Yukhnov (I2). From the route map, I cannot tell: must Blue forces also capture I2 before they can continue up the route toward L4, or are they able to go directly there, bypassing the I2 transport point?

Thanks for answering what (and when) you're able to - we'll be anxious to maybe learn some more on some of this. We need to. Each week we see what appears to be favorable results in the air for our side in terms of destroying enemies where they are moving forward, yet it appears futile after episodes like the one described in (2) above.

(Also thanks for posting the proposed plane set for Bessarabia. FI boys, go there & check it out, and give your thoughts/etc.)

^:)
User avatar
:FI:Armitage
Post Maniac 2nd Grade
Posts: 1240
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: Athenry, Galway, Ireland

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by :FI:Armitage » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:27 pm

I'm also confused as to
1: M15. We cleared that town out at the start of the first mission and at the start of the second mission it was shown as in back in Red Territory. We then swept the roads and eliminated the convoys heading to that town but now its switched back to Blue. Can you explain why ?

2: M10 Mozhaysk. I checked this sector and I can see no Blue in the town or nearby. Escorted multiple Red convoys (including fuel trucks) to O10 where they stalled and were attacked by Stukas(minimal damage). This is at least the third mission where by convoys arrive at O10 stall and never move forward. Why

3: Q10. A train is stuck here. Has been for at least 2 missions. Any idea why ?
Nephris
Professional Boardie
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Nephris » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:27 pm

1) Do the Blue pilots ever encounter AAA guns that seem "unbreakable?"
I noticed that once in spring. But basically we try to avoid attacking AAA, as it is almost never worth what is paid for it when attacking. However I know about that bug, cant say what causes that ,as no mod objects are used on the map.
2) I want to learn more about front
Take a look into the missions we played, you should be able to follow which tanks were comin in and which got lost du human or AI planes or simple ground forces. The easiest way to learn how DCG is changing the front is to generate a DCG stock campaign and generating 10 missions in a row. Of course no AI planes will take influence but
at least u will be able to see how and when a location changes colour.
Basically,a location changes a colour as it is loosing the virtual troop count. Tanks of course decrease enemies troop count, by shooting static objects at a location and increasing own troop count.If the troop count gets 0, the location turns contested, >0 a location changes its colour.
3) At start of today's 2nd mission, we were no longer able to take off from both airfields at Medyn as well as the Q7 airfield
You noticed you were not able to record tracks and AI planes didnt flew the first mission.
I told Frank, when he joined our TS I will load an old squadron setting from mission 4.4.1942, which then fixed the problem but changed some squadron positions and numbers. We had the same problem,as we were not able to start from several airfields.Of course that affected the plane count and their locations.
I dint want to reedit the plane situation before the second mission, as it would have been taken 40 mins to compare and test it on my local machine. I alreay missed 70 mins of the first mission to find the problem.


The troop measurement (troop count) is listed in the territory file. If you r interested in it, I will upload it in future to the log files.

here a short extract form up2date territory.dcg


Mozhaysk 2 allied=0 axis=40
Dorokhovo 1 allied=0 axis=0
Ostashevo 2 allied=0 axis=10
Ruza 1 allied=0 axis=0
Klementievo 0 allied=0 axis=19
Ruza_Airfield 1 allied=50 axis=0
Ostashevo 2 allied=0 axis=10

Borovsk 0 allied=0 axis=0->P7 = contested, not blue already,blue flag is just on top of red flag here. Check Bessarabia Thread, I posted there today the same thing to frank to location 4b.

A location can also be coloured although its troop count =0, but it is just weak in defense, when enemy tanks advance. I limited the max troop count to 50 in february, to keep the ball rolling.

Lowengrins forum has become indeed very silent after the database crash all really worthy info created in the threads got lost.I had around 1000 posts just related to question and answers... :cry:
But maybe this is what you are looking for.

4) Blue forces control the I3 transport point, but not the one in Yukhnov (I2). From the route map, I cannot tell: must Blue forces also capture I2 before they can continue up the route toward L4, or are they able to go directly there, bypassing the I2 transport point?
The Yukhnov is actually a T-Crossing. One route moves from Yukhnov north to Iznsoski Airstrip, the other east to Medyn.
This sketch is a bit easier to follow the route at yukhnov I guess.
By default a waypoint to create route runs from 0 - 1- 2- 3 ....Blue follows that chronologic. Red instead follows the opposite only 3-2-1.
Image

So Red can take Yukhnov only via Iznsoski atm.
But I can add a route that runs from Yukhnov Airfield to Medyn Airfield for blue and vice versa for red.


to be continued, back to work .... :roll: :doubt:
Image
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Baby Boardie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Graf Zahl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:01 pm

Wow... :shock:
Nephris wrote in our forum you got some questions and he is short on time. So he asked for someone to answer your questions.

I would not have said I'll have look had I known about this... :oops:
DCG is a black box for the blue pilots, too - Including me it seems.

So while I am unable to answer your detailed questions, I can maybe try and dissolve your concerns about a blue "knowledge-headstart"...

Concerning your troubles at conquering locations:
Uncounted evenings we fought hard for Yukhnov, not getting it even so there were only blue and no red tanks visible. We even started to destroy search lights. And when we somehow managed to get it, we lost it again... :doubt:

And...
Blue2 wrote:Do the Blue pilots ever encounter AAA guns that seem "unbreakable?" ... I experienced that one myself, making 3 or 4 firing passes against in my IL-2 without results.
Well. Not really. :shock:
Because doing more than two passes on the same AAA (flak) is a death sentence for blue. :roll:
Remember, no "concrete birds" for us. Either our planes are fast and pack little punch and ammunition (Emil and Friedrich) or they can hit like hell but burn twice as fast (110). Or they throw bombs (that's a different story...) or do not reach the target before the mission ends (Henschel).

In short: Several times I attacked AAA without results - besides maybe problems for my engine. May have been bad aim or hardcore AAA. Most times I would guess it was trees providing cover for the AAA but not for me.
In general, all explosive things (bombs or Mk108 shells) work great on AAA. Normal cannons not so much. And MG...well, it's maybe easier to park next to the damn thing and beat the crap out of its crew...

There are surely many bugs in DCG or DCG and ServerCommander in combination.
For example in the 1st mission on 08.09.13 I personally destroyed a bridge, I saw it in ruins. I even got it in the stats. But in the 2nd Mission...guess who's back with a dumb grin on it's concrete face! :x
And many times we have failed to locate tanks or columns in the following mission, even though we checked every possible location. Maybe they hide underground sometimes but still take a location. I can just wonder and keep on struggling...

Oh...and one final thing I always wanted to ask: What does it take to eliminate 1 column of tanks (4 vehicles) for red on average? :o

Cheers & good night!

GZ

P.S.: May be the hour, but Nephris last picture does not explain anything to me! :lol:
User avatar
:FI:Nellip
Post Maniac 2nd Grade
Posts: 1577
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 7:09 pm
Location: North Yorkshire - God's own country

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by :FI:Nellip » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:30 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:
Oh...and one final thing I always wanted to ask: What does it take to eliminate 1 column of tanks (4 vehicles) for red on average? :o
One pass in an IL2 with AJ cassette, our weapon of choice :lol:
Olegs stalker

Image
Image

Image
User avatar
:FI:Armitage
Post Maniac 2nd Grade
Posts: 1240
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:28 pm
Location: Athenry, Galway, Ireland

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by :FI:Armitage » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:34 am

One pass in an IL2 with AJ cassette, our weapon of choice
it did take some practice to take all four out in a single pass and even now I would say we only do that approx 80% of the time.

Every now and then we miss one and then its time to use the cannons which can take several passes.
User avatar
:FI:Gadje
The Unforseeable
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:44 pm
Location: Scottish Borders

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by :FI:Gadje » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:06 pm

Thing is Zahl I see DCG causes concern and frustration with how it works on both sides, but you're still winning mate ;) Lose three sectors in one mission after your team all feel they did well and try that for size. :x
Nephris
Professional Boardie
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Nephris » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:54 pm

i ll have a look into the past 2 mission when i find some time on of the next evenings
I dont know how intensive u plan ur missions.
We got a own forum section ,each group get a few goals to accomplish until mission end.
We spend around 3-4 h to plan and discuss our missions ans then print maps with previous discovered
units.We kick unimportant targets as airfields in the back lands, flak,non important bridges.The first task of the complete team is always tanks come first.
Each pilot got a own map with marked flight routes,countdown to reach a target or pass to the next.

I already told ya 3x where the blue achilis point is,but u never destroyed it significantly.

I offer to join ya for one evening and the week before we plan the mission.For that week i ll be locked from blue planer forum.
Of course i wont take advantage of blue known targets or planed mission and vice versa.
At the end dcg doesnt take advantage for blue or red side.Although there maybe some bugs,like bridges that get build again,although they got destroyed.But that doesnt mean tanks dive over it,as the route is actually marked broken.Someone with a bit free time should test this,i could imagine this is a similar limitation as with buildings which status cant be transfered to other missions.Means it is probably just a visual thing.Personally i never noticed tanks driving over a bridge that was destroyed,but looked repaired in the other mission.Dcg is just reading the log and processing it.
There maybe some bugs in dcg,which belong mostly to planeset in dogfight in combination with server commander.Basically DCG is working and is liable,if i woukd think different i wouldnt spend 10h a week to edit for it and preparing another 3-4h planing our sundays mission.

The statement dcg would have many bugs is imho not correct,there maybe some.
Calling issues i dont understand is surely not correct, but easier as testing those issues in an own test envirenment and proove there is a bug. ;)
Image
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Baby Boardie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Graf Zahl » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:13 pm

Well I don't think anyone blames you, Neph.

I can understand the red frustration, as blue seemingly advances unhindered for the last few months.

But there are 2 things (at least... :roll: ) to consider:
1. Us poor blue fools fight very hard for every tank we destroy. Taking 2 with a bomb is considered a really good shot. And 3 are mostly only possible when you get them on a bridge. Cannons are useless except against the most basic tanks. The only plane with realisitic chances to blast 3 or more tanks in a flight is a bomber (Heinkel or Ju-88) using lots of small bombs - of course only if you can reach the target. That's the reason we use almost no Henschels, Stukas or 110 with Bk.3.7.

2. From my point of view, DCG ground combat is always behind the air combat you experience as a pilot. While you might see no direct effect of your actions, if you hit hard enough, I'm pretty sure there will be an effect sooner or later.
For example our big breakthrough in the Moshaizk area was made possible by slaughtering 40+ red tanks in the Ruza area in 2 missions and also crippling your remaining tanks with a coordinated strike on fuel depots.

Of course not only did we hit well in these missions, we were also lucky that you apparently did not hit us as hard back in this moment.
And there where some blue tanks close to front to push in the gap. Many things need to come together.

BTW: At the moment I feel more like a stalemate is approaching in this battle. I may be wrong, but this is my opinion.

Well, I told you this campaign won't end fast! It's a long and hard way, no matter who wins! ;)

Cheers,
GZ
Nephris
Professional Boardie
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: The ongoing JG42 war

Post by Nephris » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:11 pm

Well I don't think anyone blames you, Neph.
Didnt took it like that. Lets keep in mind english is not our mother lang :)



crossposting from bessarabia thread
I added to the Campaign Site an area with several polls, as some decisions need to be done as democratic as it can get imho.Collection opinions in forums can be a bit chewy aswell sometimes, so it is maybe easier for some to just klick but posting an opinion.The polls will run until a certain dealine and the result will affect directly the campaign.
Of course one need to register his username, if there are any concerns, I can create certain user in the backend and mail the login details.In this case pls PM me here
Pls use your server ingame nick while registration.
Image
Post Reply